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Got a new (old) VICTA something #8010417/12/16 02:59 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Hey guys, picked this up today, though not quite sure what VICTA it is. Also, when I picked it up, he showed me it isn't seized.. pulled the cord and (no spark plug) woosh.. a bit of a geyser .. guess he left it out in the rain... Q: How do you go about dealing with a mower with water in cylinder? I guess I'll have to strip it right down? I pulled the cord a few more times when i got home to clear more out then turned it upside down to try get even more out.. but yeh, i dunno.. thoughts ? |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8011117/12/16 04:14 AM |
Gadge Moderator |
Well, that's what I'd have to term a 'butchered bitsa', especially with the weird mods to the muffler. It's basically a 1950's engine and blade disc, on a 1970's Utility chassis. If the engine still turns over, it may be salvageable - water in the cylinder is not necessarily a major problem; water in the crankcase usually is, due to the rolling element bearings in there. Best thing to do, is to strip the engine down pronto, and give the big end and main bearings a good shot of something like WD-40. I'm not an admirer of WD-40 as a lubricant, but it does do a good job of displacing water. The teardown will be a good exercise in getting to know these engines, anyway. There's a bit of a trick to getting the crankshaft boss under the blade disc off - see THIS past thread. Cheers, "ODK Mods can explain it to you, but they can't understand it for you..." "Crazy can be medicated, ignorance can be educated - but there is no cure for stupid..." |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Gadge#8011617/12/16 06:05 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Originally Posted by Gadge Well, that's what I'd have to term a 'butchered bitsa', especially with the weird mods to the muffler. It's basically a 1950's engine and blade disc, on a 1970's Utility chassis. Ahhhh Bugger .. was hoping it was a complete original mower (though the red painted engine on orange base did make me a lil suspicious) .. any idea or pictures of what the original base is suppose to be for that particular engine ? As with the muffler .. is that not an original victa muffler ? Originally Posted by Gadge If the engine still turns over, it may be salvageable - water in the cylinder is not necessarily a major problem; water in the crankcase usually is, due to the rolling element bearings in there. Best thing to do, is to strip the engine down pronto, and give the big end and main bearings a good shot of something like WD-40. I'm not an admirer of WD-40 as a lubricant, but it does do a good job of displacing water. Managed to get the cylinder head off and had a peak into the crank-case .. didn't see any water, seemed mostly dry... so hopefully when I get it completely dismantled I can have a better look. Originally Posted by Gadge You'll need Whitworth [BSW/BSF] spanners for the barrel, head and crankcase nuts though, and either a 13/16" or 1" AF ring spanner [or that size socket and an air rattle gun] for the blade disc nut. Just my luck.. 90% of tools (sockets at least) I have are Metric lol and the imperial are 12 sided .. managed to find a socket and spanner with correct size though.. everything came apart pretty easy.. nothing seized (except blade boss still stuck) Originally Posted by Gadge There's a bit of a trick to getting the crankshaft boss under the blade disc off - see THIS past thread. i followed that link, but I'm not 100% sure Im doing it right. I layed the engine on its side with the boss/shaft sticking out the side. I stuck a club-hammer under the boss and gave it a few light taps with another metal hammer.. no budge.. not sure if this is a slip on type or threaded (if you can get threaded). im a little hesitant to hit harder in-case I damage the boss I've got a butane torch here.. dont think it'll be hot enough to heat the boss up though.. Last edited by Widget; 17/12/16 06:08 AM. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8011817/12/16 06:43 AM |
Mowerfreak SENIOR TECHNICIAN |
I like bitsas. It's always fascinating seeing the ideas other people come up with that you would have never likely thought up on your own. Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today! |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8013017/12/16 07:28 PM |
Gadge Moderator |
Originally Posted by Widget i followed that link, but I'm not 100% sure Im doing it right. I layed the engine on its side with the boss/shaft sticking out the side. I stuck a club-hammer under the boss and gave it a few light taps with another metal hammer.. no budge.. not sure if this is a slip on type or threaded (if you can get threaded). im a little hesitant to hit harder in-case I damage the boss I've got a butane torch here.. dont think it'll be hot enough to heat the boss up though.. It's a straight un-keyed taper fit - matching 15� tapers on the shaft and in the bore of the boss. Cheers, "ODK Mods can explain it to you, but they can't understand it for you..." "Crazy can be medicated, ignorance can be educated - but there is no cure for stupid..." |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8013617/12/16 08:58 PM |
Blumbly Master Technician |
What I do to get the boss off is lay it on a hard metal surface (I use my vice) put the nut back on the (Just in case I miss) and then pound it with a hammer.Try not to hit the bottom of the crankcase as it will damage it. Quote .. any idea or pictures of what the original base is suppose to be for that particular engine ? As for that post up the engine number as that will give me a better idea as to what it's off,and I should be able to work out what it's off. Quote .. is that not an original victa muffler ? It is but it has been very very modified. That base should have had a series 70 engine with a box muffler that fit's in the rectangular slot in the base. Here for a good time,not a long time. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8013817/12/16 10:34 PM |
CyberJack Forum Historian |
Quote What I do to get the boss off is lay it on a hard metal surface (I use my vice) put the nut back on the (Just in case I miss) and then pound it with a hammer. I would think most experienced members would use that technique. I would like to make this observation from personal experience. We avoided the laying of the Victa bosses on fixed hard surfaces. Gadge has said pullers are not a good solution here, and this must By using a BIG hammer as support, and using a smaller hammer (regular size) When hitting against a fixed object, like a vice, I noticed this would take I understand most folk will have a vice and an engineering hammer. It's just an observation. All very stubborn boss. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something CyberJack#8014818/12/16 02:18 AM |
freebird Apprentice level 2 |
hi widget |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8015418/12/16 09:20 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Update: Got the boss off.. took severl hard wacks.. few dents in the boss.. dont think its serious.. but.. seems I made a slight bend in the end of the crank shaft (where the blade-plate + nut screw onto .. I'd like to think that a minor bend is ok.. but spinning in circle at high rpm would likely cause a bad wobble/vibration One of the shaft bearings was seized/rusted ,,, the other spins but may as-well replace both...
Which brings me to the last Question.. how the flip do I get the other half of the enging-case separated from the crank shaft
I;v tried bashing the end with the back-side of the hammer handle (wood), but just damages the handle Thanks again |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something CyberJack#8017719/12/16 12:57 AM |
Blumbly Master Technician |
Sorry Jack I disagree I've never had any problems with my method and I know of a lot of others use the same and don't have any problems either.As I said you just have to watch that you have a nut to protect the thread as missing can happen. Here for a good time,not a long time. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8017819/12/16 01:05 AM |
CyberJack Forum Historian |
Hello Blumby My discussion was about the most effective method. It could be similar to how tower bell strikers work. ------------------------ |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8018519/12/16 03:14 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Update: Got the crankshaft separate from the rest of the engine body, cleaned the parts if some diesel and used a drill+wire wheel to carefully clean the flywheel.. but couldnt reach sections of it.. tips (besides sand blasting)? Same with the inside of the crankshaft.. cleaned around it, but cant reach into the middle of the crankshaft.. tips ? Will also need to replace the bearings and seals One thing I noticed, there's only 1x gasket on it.. between the crankcase and cylinder head .. is there not suppose to be a gasket between the crankcase halves ? More pics: Originally Posted by Blumbly As for that post up the engine number as that will give me a better idea as to what it's off,and I should be able to work out what it's off. Looks like a IB AA 1745 Last edited by Widget; 19/12/16 03:25 AM. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8018619/12/16 03:19 AM |
Blumbly Master Technician |
Awesome good to see your having fun.Wish I had time right now,but I'll get that sorted.Anyway did you want to post the engine number so I can help you work out what it's off? Here for a good time,not a long time. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Blumbly#8018719/12/16 03:27 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Originally Posted by Blumbly Awesome good to see your having fun.Wish I had time right now,but I'll get that sorted.Anyway did you want to post the engine number so I can help you work out what it's off? Fun when things work out.. not so fun when they break lol.. still bummed about the slight bend in the crankshaft.. will have to apply some heat and try bend back about a millimeter. With the engine number, I edited post above with a pic.. looks like it reads IB AA 1745 Last edited by Widget; 19/12/16 03:27 AM. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8019319/12/16 05:47 AM |
Blumbly Master Technician |
OK well due to the engine number I'd say (unless it's been pieced together from more than one engine) that it is from a model 8 standard.As it has the muffler on the side it does and the engines back then did contain letters in the numbers.The later series of the model 5 did,but they didn't have the exhaust port that would take that muffler. The Sheerline did to but the muffler and carby where on the opposite sides to yours and they had a different style head.So that only leaves the model 8 as by the model 12 the engine numbers didn't contain any letters. Quote is there not suppose to be a gasket between the crankcase halves ? No there was no gasket between the two halves.I guess they were such a awesome fit they didn't need it.I usually put some gasket paste between them just to make sure,but it may not need it there,but I'd suggest to anyway you don't really want to have to pull it apart if it had a small air leak from it. Quote still bummed about the slight bend in the crankshaft.. will have to apply some heat and try bend back about a millimeter. Wow if the crankshaft is bent I suggest getting another one,as if it's not spot on it could cause all sorts of problems.Some things like extra vibration,damage to seals & bearings and other things like that.Could do quite a bit of damage to itself. Here for a good time,not a long time. |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Blumbly#8019919/12/16 06:45 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Thanks heaps Blumbly, much appreciated.. now to find a model 8 base... Originally Posted by Blumbly No there was no gasket between the two halves.I guess they were such a awesome fit they didn't need it.I usually put some gasket paste between them just to make sure,but it may not need it there,but I'd suggest to anyway you don't really want to have to pull it apart if it had a small air leak from it. oh, true.. might grab some silicon gasket maker just in-case Quote Wow if the crankshaft is bent I suggest getting another one,as if it's not spot on it could cause all sorts of problems.Some things like extra vibration,damage to seals & bearings and other things like that.Could do quite a bit of damage to itself. Will deffinitely be on the lookout for one.. though Im gonna give it a shot to see if i can correct it.. just in-case, are these crankshaft used in all the older 2stroke victas ? or is each different ? On another note, the bearings look exposed (no rubber seals on them) .. when I replace them, do I need to get the same deep groove radial bearings? Does the oil in the 2 stroke lubricate them or will sealed bearings be ok ? There's this kit on ebay, not for another 8days.. its a bit pricy, but not sure what ill be looking at in terms of cost.. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/172448022590?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8023420/12/16 03:01 PM |
Mowerfreak SENIOR TECHNICIAN |
Regarding the visibly bent threaded section in the picture, why not try and wrap layers of rubber or cloth around it and mount it into a vice and gingerly bend it back using forward and backward movements? That's what I would do. Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today! |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Mowerfreak#8027521/12/16 07:13 AM |
WidgetOP Apprentice level 3 |
Originally Posted by Mowerfreak Regarding the visibly bent threaded section in the picture, why not try and wrap layers of rubber or cloth around it and mount it into a vice and gingerly bend it back using forward and backward movements? That's what I would do. Thanks Mowerfreak, I might give that a shot .. should I try heating the bent section 1st? Ive only got butane, not sure if that'll help, but heat would soften the steel, yes ? Thanks again |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8027821/12/16 07:25 AM |
Mowerfreak SENIOR TECHNICIAN |
You should have ample leverage at the top of the crank shaft to reverse the bend. I would periodically check it by somehow spinning the crank and observing the thread to see if it is concentric again, to your judgement. Ahh, if only victa had kept producing the thumblatch catcher series, they would be in better shape today! |
Re: Got a new (old) VICTA something Widget#8028021/12/16 07:29 AM |
NormK SENIOR TECHNICIAN |
Not a particularly difficult job if you have a press, lathe and dial indicator. Pity you are so far away Widget |
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